Continued from Bush and Intelligent Design
Sharon wrote: Really, when debating this "ID hypothesis", without empirical evidence for said Designer, everything boils down to nothing more than hopeful speculation and philosophy which has no place in science. But George Bush probably doesn't fully understand what either evolution or intelligent design are, himself.T Pagano wrote: If this were true then the government would not be funding SETI research. There is absolutely NO empirical evidence of the existence of extra terrestrial life anywhere else in the universe. Absolutely none. Nonetheless SETI researchers use a method very similar to ID theory and their inferences don't rely on knowledge of the extra terrestrial's existence, knowledge of the extra terrestrial's nature, knowledge of his motivation, knowledge of his methods or manufacturing.MagentaStudios: The analogy with SETI is not quite right- SETI is looking for intellegence, but it is based on our own existance as an example. We know we exist on this planet, so we are looking for other things like us.
With ID, we are not looking for something like us, or something like anything that we know exists at all.
As a result, this theory does not belong in a science classroom, it belongs in a philosophy classroom.
It is based on pure conjecture, not on analysis of data.Cubist wrote: Among other things: SETI assumes that the senders actually want to communicate with beings in other star systems, that the senders have technology more-or-less equivalent to what we humans have got, and that the senders think radio transmissions are a good way to do it. None of these assumptions are *necessarily* reliable, of course. But in the absence of *any* such assumptions, how the heck can you figure out what you ought to be looking for?
Sharon: My father, *may he rest in peace*, saw the opening to the movie "Contact" -- it appears scientific, the camera drawing away from Earth and radio signals in space... right out to Hitler speaking and audio fading out on morse code -- going back in time. I was amazed by the computer animation -- but my Dad shrugged it off and told me that it wouldn't happen. He never was one to explain a lot, but if my memory is correct he explained the interference (i.e., Asteroid Belt and other disruption in space?) would prevent radio signals and the like from traveling and transmitted 'infinitely'. I didn't believe him at the time, afterall, it was "Contact" written by Carl Sagan. My Dad was lisenced by the FCC, advanced Ham Radio Operator lisence, and understood something about Communications I didn't. He also spent years selling and servicing satellite reception dishes / systems. A lot of credentials in electronics / communications.
I have thought about the question -- could we receive signals from intelligent life? (if it exists). How long has man had the technology to communicate via space? The past century? We already know this planet is *only* around four billion years old - - and it took 3.8 to get where we are today. How much time for "evolved intelligent life" in any other system to develop the technology to communicate? Of course we had Christianity hindering the progress of scientists for centuries -- so perhaps another system "out there, somewhere" could have developed means of communication. Yet, the speed of the waves would have to be equal that of light -- and what signals they send out *today* -- might reach us in 17 or 170 or 1700 years after transmission?
What are the chances?
Radio Waves
Radio waves are invisible waves of electricity and magnetism. Each radio station sends out radio waves. They travel out from the station something like water waves travel out from a splash in a pond. Water waves travel slow, about 10 miles each hour. Radio waves travel very fast, at 186,000 miles each second.
www.midnightscience.comThe Speed of Light - Succeed in Physical Science
Since light travels so fast, it would normally be reflected back through the ...
All electromagnetic waves, including visible light, travel at 186000 mi/sec ...
www.school-for-champions.comTHE NEAREST STARS
Polaris ... transmission traveling at the speed of light . . . 360 to 820 years to reach earth.
Rigel ... transmission traveling at the speed of light . . . 900 years to reach earth.
Vega ... transmission traveling at the speed of light . . . 25 years to reach earth.-- MaybeThere's not that many systems that close to us. Even if they are life like us, "out there" the chances of their transmission reaching us, in our life time -- or vis versa, is unlikely.
Alpha Centauri is the star system that is closest to the Earth. The dimmest star in the system, Proxima Centauri (Alpha Centauri C), is the closest star to us (other than our sun). The stars Alpha Centauri A and Alpha Centauri B are close binary stars.
www.enchantedlearning.comIf Betelgeuse were at the center of our Solar System, it would extend beyond the orbit of Jupiter. It is 520 light-years from Earth.
Aldebaran is about 40 times as big as the Sun.
Alnitak (Zeta Orionis) is a star at the eastern end of the Orion's belt
Antares is a M1.5Iab variable red supergiant star that is about 520 light-years from Earth and is about 230 times as big as the Sun.
Arcturus is 34 light-years from Earth.
Capella is a multiple star system containing at least 9 stars. This bright system is in the Northern Hemisphere, 45 degrees from Polaris (the northern pole star); it is in the constellation Auriga. The two brightest stars in Capella are a binary star system. They are both yellow (like our Sun) with masses 2.6 times and 2.7 times that of the Sun. One is 9 times as large as the Sun, the other is 12 times as large. Each gives off roughy 78 times the light as the Sun. These two stars are about 43 light years from Earth.
This young, bright, blue supergiant star is about 1,500 light years away.
Deneb is about 60,000 times more luminous than the sun!Polaris' distance from Earth has been estimated to be from 360 to 820 light years. At its brightest, Polairs is about 6,000 to 10,000 times brighter than our Sun. It is the larger star at the end of the handle of the Little Dipper (Ursa Minor). Polaris is also called the Lodestar or the Cynosure.
PROXIMA CENTAURI
The closest star to us is the Sun. Other than that, the closest star is Proxima Centauri, aka Alpha Centauri C (the dimmest star in the Alpha centauri system). Proxima Centauri is about 4.2 light-years from the Sun.RIGEL
Rigel (beta Orionis) is the brightest star in the constellation Orion and one of the brightest stars in the sky. It is a blue (very hot) supergiant, over 60 million miles in diameter (almost 100 times bigger than the sun). It is more than 50,000 times more luminous than the Sun. It has an absolute magnitude of -7.1 and an apparent magnitude of +0.12. It is over 900 light-years from Earth.Sirius (meaning "scorching" in Greek), also known as the dog star, is the brightest star in the sky (except for the sun). It is in the constellation Canis Major (The Great Dog). Sirius is a main sequence star that is about 70 times more luminous than the sun. It is about 8.6 light-years from Earth.
The Sun is a star at the center of our solar system. Our Sun is a medium-sized yellow star that is 93,026,724 miles (149,680,000 km) from Earth. Its diameter is 865,121 miles (1,391,980 km). At its core, nuclear reactions produce enormous amounts of energy, through the process of converting hydrogen atoms into helium atoms (nuclear fusion). Its absolute magnitude is +4.83. The solar mass is 1.99 x 1030 kg.
Vega is the 5th brightest star in the sky and is pale blue. It is about 25 light years from Earth. Its spectral type is A0Va. A disk of dust surrounds Vega, from which planets might form. Vega, together with Deneb and Altair form the Summer Triangle.
www.enchantedlearning.com-------------------------
WEIRD SCIENCE
Extreme slowing
Although the speed of an electromagnetic wave through matter is can be up to 50% less than the speed through a vacuum, in 1999 scientists were able to greatly reduce the speed through matter in special situations.Danish physicists performed an experiment where they slowed light down to only 38 miles per hour (about 57 km/hr) by sending a beam through a molecule made of sodium atoms cooled to near absolute zero (- 273 degrees C or - 460 degrees F). They achieved this low temperature by using lasers to slow down the atoms, through a special method used in quantum mechanics called the Bose-Einstein condensate. (Explanation of this goes away beyond the scope of this course).
www.school-for-champions.comSOLAR FLARES AND INTERFERENCE IN SPACE
We had a Satellite receiver system hooked up to the television, and certain times of the year (at a set time each day, the broadcast would fuzz out into snow on the television... and slowly fade back in.) Over the passing days, the length of blackout would increase in the time the reception was out, and then begin to decrease, until the interference ceased altogether. I asked my Dad what was causing that, and he said it was Solar Flares causing the disruption.Space weather forecasts clear communication
... and solar flares ensuring that satellite communications are not disrupted.
... and high-velocity solar winds caused the interruption of power from a ...
www.af.milSun and Satellites, Alaska Science Forum
Article about interruptions in satellite communications because of the sun. ...
The peak in sunspots and solar flares for this cycle should arrive around ...
www.gi.alaska.eduSPACE.com -- Chinese Radio Bears Solar Flare Brunt
On the afternoon of June 2, an M-class solar flare interfered with radio transmission throughout ... caused widespread interruption to radio communications. ...
www.space.comNOAA Magazine Online (Story 131)
They provide real-time measurements of solar flares, radiation storms, ...
1998 and military reports of interruptions to high frequency radio communications ...
www.magazine.noaa.govGoogle + solar flare interruption communication
What are the chances radio waves would ever make their way here, over such incredible distances and bypassing interference in space?
I am not saying it's a lost cause, but I believe it is highly unlikely we would ever receive a transmission from extraterrestrial intelligence. I have an idea of what SETI does -- it's probably staffed by communication specialists and professionals who are tuned into every frequency, and looking for just a "sliver" of some transmission or radio signal --if chance had it that "a signal" came through time and space. Still they deal with the empirical, unlike the Intelligent Design folks. Here's the sad reality of that designer. I was told Jesus died so we could all have a "personal relationship" with the Father God. But I was also told God doesn't speak to man anymore, like he did in the Garden of Eden, or through Balaam's ass --God speaks through "The Bible" today -- we get a book as our consolation prize for our omniscient deadbeat Dad. So, obviously in difference to SETI, that Intelligent Designer doesn't want to be found or have anything to do with mankind -- why waste tax dollars searching?
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RELATED LINKS
The Sinfulness of Extraterrestrials
Roman Catholic calls on adherents to consider the possibility of the evangelization of extraterrestrial beings. Questions on the original sin and a planet with immortal life.I.D. (Intelligent Design) for I.DUMMIES
What is Intelligent Design? What are some of the arguments against it? What debate tactics are usually employed when discussing this controversial issue?What is Intelligent Design?
Questioning the purpose and intent of Intelligent Design advocates. Is this a last ditch attempt to drag scientific progress backwards due to man's natural disposition toward superstition and fear of the unknown?George Bush and Intelligent Design
George Bush intends to add ID Hypothesis to the public school cirriculum so children 'understand the debate'. After review, one can conclude Bush does not understand the debate himself. He must likewise include such counterpart hypothesis as 'ignorant design' and the 'divine tinkerer hypothesis, including the non-design hypothesis of atheism. Evolution does not attempt to answer 'why' we are here, but confirms through empirical evidence 'how' we got here. Does GWB intend the course to provide children with insight into the many flaws in ID Hypothesis, or scientific points debunking it?Is Mankind Special?
Is mankind special, different or better than other creatures? Brief discussion on similarities and differences of man and animal --and what does make man, special.Review of Colson's Review of Rare Earth
Response to a commentary by a Creationist about Earth and comparison to the rest of the known Cosmos. Asking if our world is so rare.Muddlers of Science
Fictitional theories of 1945, about atomic particles and Physics.
Article last updated October 22, 2005
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